Comments on: Zhang San Feng’s Wudang Quan

By: Cheryl

Cheryl — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:53:06 +0000

Brett, Nicely put my man. I am so sick and tired of this “competition” between different martial arts.The school I train with (South Africa) gets their lineage from Shaolin and Wudang, who are also direct decendants from the Chen family and Wudang masters. My Sifo studies with them directly in China.(P.S. is the Yang style as we know if now not a watered down version of the true style as taught to the emperial family? Nothing wrong with the Chen or Yang style, both are beautiful and strong.

By: Brett

Brett — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:42:05 +0000

I’m not sure if the centuries old (pre 21st century) argument ‘my martial art is better than your martial art’ is improved much by the ‘my taiji is better than your taiji’ argument?
Most martial arts are started in obscurity, attributed to a few, challenged and contradicted by many, and ultimately developed by all practitioners: for better or worse.
Knowledge shared too wide can indeed be knowledge diluted, but only with the consent of teacher/student. What was hidden in China 60 years ago is now practised on the shores of Africa and America. This is a good thing, and the travelling/defecting Shaolin monks knew this and were prepared to risk everything to share this knowledge.
Find a good teacher, commit yourself to your studies:- the kung fu heritage relies on good students surpassing those that come before them.

By: Philip

Philip — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:10:00 +0000

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your comments. Before I respond let me say that while I said Zhang San Feng created Tai Chi Chuan, I also said that it was Wong Zong Xue who was the first to use the term Tai Chi Chuan.

Yes, there are historians who say that Zhang San Feng had nothing to do with the creation of Tai Chi Chuan, or any internal arts for that matter. I feel there are many more scholars who acknowledge that there is no conclusive proof that Zhang San Feng created the predecessor of Tai Chi Chuan, and would agree that it can neither be proved or disproved, and yet others who are happy to accept the legend as historical. As they say, the lack of something does not disprove its existence.

As to whether Tai Chi Chuan was created in the Chen Jia Gou, that is another matter, for there are some who dispute this claim too. Of course, history is the reward of the victorious.

When I said Yang style was more graceful, I did not mean to disparage Chen style. Perhaps graceful was not the most appropriate description. Yang Cheng Fu’s revised form was larger, smoother, more even paced, and lacking in the more explosive “fa jin” that is more readily seen in Chen style (and quite clearly evident in the video you suggested).

Sadly, one has to agree that the state of Tai Chi Chuan instruction worldwide leaves much to be desired. The focus on health and relaxation has result in “Tai Chi” and not “Tai Chi Chuan”. One could argue that the popularity of Tai Chi Chuan, both as recreational art and martial art, can be attributed to Yang Cheng Fu’s decision to teach Tai Chi Chuan to the general public – and to do so he had to make it more accessible.

Like it or not, Yang style has contributed much to the growth of Tai Chi Chuan, and perhaps for some Chen stylists is hard to swallow that Yang style is more popular.

By: Ken Gullette

Ken Gullette — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:16:54 +0000

Philip,
I’m surprised that you would say that Zhang San Feng created tai chi when historians now say this is only a legend. Tai Chi cannot be traced farther back than Chen Wangting — the Chen family, where Yang Luchan learned the art, as you discuss in your article. There are many legends surrounding the martial arts, and most people now realize that they’re not really true. It’s time to move into the 21st Century and discard the fantasies.

I believe that–for some Yang stylists–it’s hard to admit that the Chen family created the art. I studied Yang style for more than a decade, and when I discovered Chen, and met members of the Chen family and their disciples, I understood that I really didn’t know much about tai chi. And talk about graceful — I completely disagree with the statement that Yang style is more graceful. It’s actually much more stiff and dead — at least what passes for tai chi in most of America. For proof, look at Chen Xiaowang when he was younger. You’ve never seen such grace and explosive power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnhE0B-ro9U.

Unfortunately, most of the Yang style taught in America is very weak, and most teachers and students know nothing about the martial aspects, which is why it was created in the first place. They usually have no real concept of silk-reeling, which is one of the cornerstones of tai chi. Most students don’t even know what the ground path is, and think peng is part of Grasp the Sparrow’s Tail. They’ve turned tai chi into slow motion meditation. When I was introduced to Chen, I realized in an hour that I had to start over and discard almost everything I had learned. That’s the reality of real tai chi. And that isn’t what most people are learning.